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[VOR - April 2009]

VOR - April 2009

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[Creepy Bastard]

Good Morning Mr. Divine,

Riiiight… just passing through…

So a professional medium (is this seriously your day job?) who just happens to find a thread about an internet show about the paranormal in its infancy, without knowing anyone on the production, and decides to come to their defense?

Is this how you are trying to dupe everyone?

Even if this were true, and for the sake of this argument, I will give you the benefit of the doubt; let’s say we all believe you.

Here are the arguments raised by a large portion of the paranormal community here in Ontario:

1.   This show is taking advantage of families.
2.   They are trying to pass off amateurs as ‘professionals’ and hiring actors.

There are more points of contention, but the above two will suffice to make my case.

Any moral, ethical and conscionable person would agree that these two issues are completely and undeniably despicable.

Wouldn’t you agree?

Now…

How can you, after reading all the points made by both sides, come to the conclusion that HoaH is ‘progress’ given life?

Is this the type of behaviour that is acceptable to you? Does your support of this production also signify your support for the taking advantage of people?

Without any previous knowledge of any of the parties involved, wouldn’t you agree that your siding with a group accused of duplicity is somewhat irresponsible? What does this tell everyone about where your moral compass points?

Maybe the reason you are coming to their aid is because you support shows like this. These types of shows continue to keep the masses uneducated.

And as long as the masses remain uneducated, it is easier for you and your ilk to continue to prey on them.

Which, in turn, keeps your trailer home stuffed with Chef Boyardee, Budweiser and Marlboros for at least another week…

Unless…

You are actually lying and know more about the people behind HoaH than you first made claim?

[Crystal]

I am so looking forward to engaging in conversation with you on Saturday.......
I love your aggressive energy it gets people talking.  I am a true believer in respecting peoples opinions.
talk to you soon..
Crystals

[divineintervention!]

Good Afternoon Creepy,

I simply feel that after reading all of the verbage and bashing of which there is lots... that everyone has attacked something in such a tabloid way as to discredit the humanity involved and attack the souls of both worlds without right or merit.  At the end of the day none of you are production folks or the mediums of the type the show brings forth.  You know what you know but discredit all that conflicts with it's moral values created by you.  Yes god...or creepy... created by you.....you take the position of judge and jury and DNA specialist with no invite from the higher ups to do so.

I believe that if given the opportunity that you yourself Creepy would have loved to been apart of the show.  As for Shelly Mrudock I call this psychic sour grapes.  She speaks with 2 tounges, one of wall flower and the other of vixen.  She is a great actor from everything I have read of her posts.  The thing is you and your bloggers lap it up like a fine cream....is this how you spend your time each day looking for a cause to discredit ??  I don't believe you do care about your cause....you are the chef who toils the stew of life then watches & laughs as everyone screams as they are being cooked.

1.   This show is taking advantage of families. (show me a family that will admit to this)
2.   They are trying to pass off amateurs as ‘professionals’ and hiring actors.  (prove this please as it is a blanket statment)



I don't consume those vices you speak as then I would fall into one of your neat and really original (wink) life boxes. I am a professional not a medical specialist as I was asked to compare myself to in an earlier post.  My fee's are irrelevant to this conversation..not because I fear ridicule but because they have no relevance to the program at issue.

My internet searches are my own and even out here in the sticks we can become part of the battle of the light worker....

I just ask please that you call Nathan Chamberland...no one has done that yet...call him and get the truth Mr. Mulder.

[dr.gord]

OK I have been quiet for most of this topic but I have to step in say something.

This topic needs to ease up a bit. IT has turned in to nothing more than a bashfest and this will not be tolerated anymore.

By all means discuss the show, but the bashing needs to stop!

If it continues, this topic will be locked and no further discussion will be allowed.

[Ghostboy]

I can be hired on as a PR consultant. My rates may be steep but I can fix this.

I can fix anything!

[the_haunted]

You're hired. When can you start?

[Ghostboy]

Step right up and put your head on my anvil. <<smash!>>

Maybe it'll knock some sense into some people

[shelleymurdock]

Divine,you speak as though you know me,you have the right to your opinion and i'll give you that.

How can you judge me?....by something you have heard?

Have you proven me as a fraud,perhaps a criminal...i didn't think so.

By the way your call was wrong,not wall flower nor vixen.

I would love to put a said family up on t he stands,however they cannot speak because of a NDA...that is a NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT.

And i would never ever be dishonest in any way to the family involved.

All i can really say right now is that when the truth finally comes out and it will,there will be alot of people tucking something between their legs and wlking away quietly for fear of feeling like an ass.

So hmmm,you must be a friend of sayge's and i may even point out that you have the word ''lilydale'' flashing in my head.

I must say i do like the word you have used...vixen....kinda makes me feel a little hot 'nn' sassy.

[Inconvenient Facts]

Wow...

I really am amazed... this thread has just now made me actually sad... really, dreadfully sad... and because I recognise something... and it may be off topic, but the fact it was raised is tragic...

1.   This show is taking advantage of families. (show me a family that will admit to this)

In my years in the field, I've dealt with (thankfully,) only four people who were pretty much bankrupted by charlatan psychics and house clearers...

Most were elderly...

I must include also one younger family that wasn't "bankrupted", but lied to and bilked out of hundreds of dollars for bogus work by a fraudulent house clearer... the "history" he and his cohort collected was utter bunk... and his "clearing" (surprise) didn't work. You'll be shocked to hear they found this fellow and his lady friend through the media.

All these people said the same thing when asked why they came to people like us and not the police...

All five people mentioned above... were too embarrassed.

They felt that they had been "had"... were "marks"... were truly victims and would be seen as dumb by others.

NOT ONE of these five people... the four elderly people... and the one young family I mentioned... would come forward to the media, the police, or to anyone... they came to us because they noted we never charge for any of our services and have notices that we abide by The Ontario Privacy Act which prohibits us from publishing specifics or moving forward without express written consent of the witness/reporter.

Now, we've also had several people write with positive experiences... probably about fifteen people in total (over the last almost twelve years... just a touch over one per annum which is not that good a track record, but I will give due where it's earned...)... with "hiring" help... but it's those five that remain in our mind...

...and when you're sitting in an elderly woman's living room, while she tearfully explains how she needs to cobble together $800.00 or lose her home to the bank, because she NEEDED to pay a psychic who was in contact with her dead husband who the psychic told her inhabits her home... of course, nothing she paid for worked... but the psychic was promising that for just a FEW MORE DOLLARS...

You find people using the words, show me a family that will admit to this a little off putting.

Y'know "Divine", we know about the messages sent through our blog... and a few other comments you've made... and your line about "stumbling in here" to this message board is malarkey... and now, you're entire argument, considering your profession, is repugnant.

I won't comment further on this... but I caution people... take care when you hear the words show me a family that will admit to this when dealing with possibly fraud... because that's not only a challenge to you... but yes, can be very easily seen as a threat to those who are embarrassed.

[Creepy Bastard]

Let’s cut the pretense.

You’re obviously someone closely connected to the show, or else you wouldn’t be so eager to defend it.

I really don’t care what your true identity is, because it doesn’t matter.

Comments like:

“At the end of the day none of you are production folks or the mediums of the type the show brings forth.”

And…

“As for Shelly Mrudock I call this psychic sour grapes.  She speaks with 2 tounges, one of wall flower and the other of vixen.  She is a great actor from everything I have read of her posts.”

And…

“I just ask please that you call Nathan Chamberland...no one has done that yet...call him and get the truth Mr. Mulder.”

… are clearly from someone that has a vested interest in seeing this show succeed, and not just some random person.

Deny it all you like.

1.   This show is taking advantage of families. (show me a family that will admit to this)
2.   They are trying to pass off amateurs as ‘professionals’ and hiring actors.  (prove this please as it is a blanket statment)

Let’s start with number 2. Seeing as it was covered extensively and with evidence, let me post the links so you can follow it at your leisure:

http://seminars.torontoghosts.org/blog/index.php/2009/04/23/history_of_a_haunting

http://tspforum.tickie.net/index.php?topic=496.0

Reading these lengthy articles will give you the proof that it is not a ‘blanket statement’.

This directly relates back to number 1.

Sending in the amateurs and actors is most definitely a sign of taking advantage of the family.

That’s like me telling someone not to take their car to a certified mechanic, but instead to let me ‘have a look’. I’ve changed the air filter, put in gas AND topped up the windshield washer fluid.

Technically this makes me an amateur mechanic.

And the best part… I won’t charge them.

Does this sound like something you would recommend to someone?

I don’t know about the rest of you, but this thread is pretty straight forward. There is not much left to say since it has all been said and laid out pretty clearly.

[Ghostboy]

Thank you Inconvenient Facts regarding your post. This is what is the most troubling -- the fact that a family was lied to and taken advantage of for the sake of entertainment, fame and profit.

The family in question has had photos of their house, their cars, their own selves and their names posted about on the Internet. They have had onlookers already, the curious, the thrill-seekers and many more will come.

The carelessness the production team carried out the project is to blame. To their credit, they have renamed the location and taken down the said photographs and names (At least someone is listening!)

But, like all things posted on the Internet they come to haunt you, or in this case the family.

The show has no doubt been exposed as a fraud. (But with really, really nice people behind it that need to feed their children!).

And this fraud arguement follows the family around as well. I won't repeat your statements IF but I would also like to add how others will percieve this family?

-- were they so gullible?
-- were they asked by the psychics to provide cash?
-- if it was a fraud, at it appears to be, were they part of it?

This is no attack on the family, but general questions the public may have and this affects not only personal relationships, but also professional ones.

Would you want to work or hire someone who has been part of a scam?

Non-Disclosure Agreements are meaningless in this case. If they family did come forward the production team has nothing on them.

After all, justice is truth and truth is justice.

[divineintervention!]

All of the psychics you have pointed out with the cash scams etc are not professionals, and thanks for showing others what they may face if confronted by them.  This is the best thing that has come out of this.

Thanks to all of you and I wish you much success in your future endevours.  I remain...a professional medium.

Just one last note looking is not seeing ..the truth.  I ask you to see...

[Ghostboy]

Mr. Flannigan or Sayge or Zoltach

You have been found in another lie.

You pretended to be someone on here to which you are not.

Shame on you.

This is a very serious matter for the family and those involved and your identity-duping is another example that you are not of a good character.

In fact, my opinion on you still stands. You are a fraud.

Need the evidence Mr. Flannigan?

Here:

You signed in with the email address as Crimehunter123@aol.com which is registered to you Mr. Flannigan.

And here is more proof. Remember the Internet holds many secrets:

Name: : Shane Flannigan
Agency/Organization: : Shane Flannigan Security Consultant
Email address: : Crimehunter123@aol.com
Comments: : Tony, Your seminar in Toronto (Blueline) was top notch. You really confirmed for me that I am doing things the right way in dealing with our local gangs. Your book was inspirational and I will refer to it again and again. Hope to see you back next year.


Here is the link you posted on concerning the above:


http://us.geocities.yahoo.com/gb/view?member=tomoreno99


Why could you not come to your own defense? Clear your name? Provide evidence to help?

Instead you make a phony character up and go about your lies.

You are an entertainer, that I will give you, but above all a highly deceptive person.

[ommadawn69]

Hi there, ommadawn69 and everyone,

Well being a professional medium in the U.S. for the past 20 years, I have myself personally witnessed in my work people being pushed, pulled, held down and many other form of physical interference.  So for you to say ommadawn69 that this man's work is fake shows that no matter how long you have been a medium that you are a novice in the work.  Yes a novice...because unless you hold some special power and have experienced all there is to experience in this world then you can never make such statements as you have.

Are you a deep trance medium...that's what I thought...so unless you have been to Africa you can not speak about the Africa experience.  And no your friends who are deep trance mediums don't count as your personal knowledge of this work...wayyy ahead of you little girl.   

Secondly I will ask everyone on this forum to go to work tomorrow and let their employer know that they will work for free for the rest of thier lives.  Then when hydro shows up at your door to disconnect the lights I want you to tell them that the reason you cannot pay the bill is that you could never charge your employer money for your work as it would discredit you as a professional person.  Now that would really be a dark day wouldn't it ?

Although I am not with the show I would have been honoured to be asked.  I say to nathan Chamberland that although I don't know you I support your show because you had the meat balls to do it.  Not like these other arm chair quarterbacks.  You know it's always those who have never ventured out of the safety of the womb that talk of what life is like on the outside.  You have my blessings for your show Mr. Producer...and I will personally come from the U.S. to applaud you when your program does well.


And to creepy...please..your feeble attempt at baiting Nathan with those sneaky nice guy tactics which were so 80's..LOl..you should have flown air force one overhead as that would have been far more sneaky..freight train...I chuckled when you started you know....your "gotcha" moment was a real surprize...ooo did not see that coming..hahahahaha.....but young man you have the support of your young peers.....feels great eh....I am getting that you have your baby sitter certification...does that make sense ?

All in all young ones, I am sure my post will make you angry but I say to you...embrace love...only love..

Respectfully Divine

Okay, I wasn't going to post a reply to this after reading the Admin's post. But I have a right to reply to this.

Divine, thank you for insulting all the mediums out there with what you said. I am disgusted that you come here, claiming you have nothing to do with the show yet it is convenient that Nathan has disappeared from answering anything and you come in here like some bodyguard and throwing the word "professional" around. LOL. Disgusting.

As a person I have had odd things that has happened to me. I have been slightly pushed off of a property by an unseen presence, my opinion of course. And I have seen things fall of shelves and walls. I don't believe I have ever said that my opinions was the end all be all in the world. I only speak of my opinion. And I have a right to that, just as much as you have a right to speak your mind. But when you are coming here and taking what I said and making your own stuff up as you go along, and then I find that a little over the top. My whole thing about the medium being shown, what looks like he is being held down, my issue was that it was a promo video and it looks like he is being held down. To glorify things, as in fake. Nathan said it wasn't that he was being held down, but it was shown like that. Way to Hollywood. That is what I was going on. I was stating my opinion that it was faked. The preception of it. I don't know this medium, never met him, never seen him at work. LOL. So how can I honestley say that he is not a medium? That is like anyone here can say I am not a medium, I can say I am the President of the United States, will anyone believe me? LOL

You come here and claim your a professional Medium, like that is supposed to have me shaking in my shoes that your above me because your a professional? Give me a break. I don't charge people for readings. Because I have a real job. You are whining that mediums that charge is because they have to feed their families and all that stuff? It is what is known as getting a real job. If you literally make being a Medium as a job, then there is no passion, there is no really wanting to help families out. It is just a job to you, hence your claim of being a professional. I guess you have your own business card? LOL.

Me being a Medium is not a job. It is what it is. I can't explain it. My aunt is one too, I guess I got it from here. Can't explain it, nor will I ever. I don't really care. If I can help people, for real, and be happy, then I am okay with that. As long as I know that it isn't a job, I am no professional, nor would I even insult myself in claiming I am.

You are no better than me because your a professional, and I do know that you saying that, there was a reason for that.

And that is what I find disgusting. But really, this is no longer a debate, as Nathan is not willing to reply to anything he has his bodyguard, his professional, to do his dirty work. And really your not doing him a favour anyway. Just making everyone in the paranormal field look really really stupid. And this is something skeptics would love to read. LOL. Nice going!!!!

I am not going to reply anymore on this thread. It is going nowhere. Beginning to regret even mentioning I was a Medium, after hearing what Divine had to say. Now I am going to lumped in with this one.

[Ghostboy]

No, you won't lumped into this ommadawn69 - you see, anyone that does not charge for their services I have a great deal of respect for and also, it provides me with proof that you, are what you say you are, or at least your moral compass is in the right direction.

This could have been a good show and the mistakes that Nathan claims he has made could all have been rectified.

However, instead of answering questions thoughtfully and with conviction we are side-tracked.

Fake users are made to defend the show. That is not a sign of professionalism.

And where are the other cast members? I mean, if they came out and were transparent as a group it would have been believable. If they all came to the same story and said that Shelley is wrong we wouldn't believe Shelley's story, or at least not all of it.

Instead we are peppered with fake users, non-answers and people hiding behind closed doors.

That isn't real. That is unreal.

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