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[VOR - April 2009]

VOR - April 2009

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[Rickstar]

*

[Creepy Bastard]

Wow. Gone one night and see what happens...

Sorry Nathan,

Let's back track a bit. Shelley has made some pretty ugly statements regarding you and your partners.

You said she was fired because she was a fraud.

What can you tell me about this paper she had on her? What was she asking the family members and what was she writing down?

Also, I am very skeptical of Sayge. First and fore most because of his ridiculous fees to help people using Zoltach. Secondly, I questioned Craig back on the PSICAN blog about the teaser clip with Sayge pinned to the bed by a demon. I did not receive any answer to that question.

Let me ask you the same question.

Was Sayge really pinned to the bed by a demon during that segment? Or was it a re-enactment?

[HistoryHaunt]

Hi Creepy,

Indeed, she was fired because all of us equally believed her to be not real. This is our belief based on the things that were going on. There are many other reasons as well, but I am not about to rip her apart here. As previously stated, none of those reasons had to do with her weight or her refusal to act. Both of those are completely untrue.

I have no idea what was on the paper. I did not see it.

I can fully and with no hesitation tell you that Sayge is the real deal. I know this from my own person experience and tests. What do you think Sayge charges for a reading with Zoltach? Further, he does a ridiculous amount of FREE work for many people. He does many charities for free and loads of other stuff. He has small children. How should he feed his family? Do you go to work for free? The only way you are going to believe him, is if you actually go there and have a reading. You will walk out scratching your head.

For the record, Sayge does his readings for the show for free. He does not charge at all to go into the home and channel Zoltach as we investigate.

You, as many do, misinterpret his being held down on the bed. This was not a re-enactment. It also was not a demon. He was experiencing an emotion tied to that very location. None of us expected that to happen. That was real. He is just sensitive.

I'm sorry, but I know Sayge personally. He is a very good friend. I know what he has been through. And I know where his heart lies. If there was ever a man I could depend on... it is him. Give him a break. He is doing everything he can to help those around him as well as his family.

Thanks for your questions...

-Nathan

[Inconvenient Facts]

With apologies to CB... and not to derail things too far... and yes, I'll stay silent after this... and again, I do apologise for speaking out again...

Nathan -> You say you will dismiss me, then ask me to call you... needless to say, this seems rather contradictory. I will leave this now in the very capable hands of the other folks here.

My last piece of advice to you is simple... You've spent a lot of time on "what" I've posted and "what" I've said... and you have to realise that I've quoted you and the production directly... and that you have already confirmed my larger complaints as accurate... and if you have been quoted out of context, why haven't you re-iterated and cleared that up properly... instead of the odd and seemingly not-on-topic denials.

Perhaps you should ask a different question... not concentrate on the "what"... the better question is "Why" am I posting and saying these things. "Who" am I... or indeed, "Who" are we because no one's alone here... and "why" are we having issues? Figure that out, as it is the root cause, and then nip the problems at the source rather than then vainly hacking away at the peripheries.

[Creepy Bastard]

I am sure Sayge is a very nice man. And thanks for clearing up the teaser clip. I can see that happening.

As for Shelley, please, rip her apart. It is only fair.

I really want to know specific things that tipped you off as to her being a fraud.

I dislike frauds. Convince me that I should dislike Shelley.

[HistoryHaunt]

Hi Creepy,

I apologize. I cannot reduce myself to that level. All I can say is that from the get-go, she oversold her "gifts" to me. Every single time I met her it was the same. Now, I can only speculate that she is not "gifted" by my own observations, and those who have observed as well and told me. There is no way I can prove that she is a fake, much the same as any so-called psychic cannot. But it is very clear to me and I'm sure all of you that if you read her posts, you will see what I'm talking about. I really don't have much to say about that stuff... she says it all for me.

There are people who have come to me and told me to be careful. These people have told me she is probably into black magic and that she is evil. Hahahaha. Seriously. They believe it, and good for them. Now, I don't believe in black magic at all. But there it is.

I will tell you that 99% of the things she is telling you all are either complete fabrications or manipulated half-truths. I can only assume she is upset that she is no longer on the show. I would be upset too. But I certainly would not do what she is doing.

I won't talk about anything else about her here. I really dislike gossip. I only wish to have the show cleared of these accusations.

Thanks for the questions...

-Nathan

[Creepy Bastard]

It’s easy to cut someone down from behind a monitor wielding the deadly mouse and keyboard combo.

Hell, anyone with a basic education can do it.

Especially when there is a mob to help you do it.

Most of the attacks on HoaH have been uninspired.

I’m not saying that there isn’t a reason. It’s just that most of the attacks are simple minded posts picking apart Nathan’s ability to articulate his argument.

Feel that rush?

That’s what schoolyard bullies experience when they know they can run roughshod over someone.

Might makes Right!

Right?

Or maybe it is The Ends Justifies the Means!

Or maybe it is some other cliché.

Whatever. What does it matter when we are right and he is wrong?

Nathan,

I apologize if you feel ganged up on here. That is not the purpose of this forum, nor does the Shadows Project condone such thug tactics.

I am not going to pick apart your production. It is a no-budget endeavor and from I can see you made a good effort in assembling a cast and crew to create History of a Haunting.

What I will do is tell you what I think about everything else.

You have admitted to making a lot of mistakes.

A hundred mistakes.

That’s good. That is how we learn. We seldom learn form our successes. As we all know, experience is a hard teacher; first we get the test – then we learn the lesson.

You were sporting enough to come here and give your side of the story. And we appreciate that.

It has helped me understand you much better.

On the production side you have made a complete mess of things right from the start. Casting calls, auditioning for a Team Lead, additional postings that were not proof read, etc, etc… I would have expected a lot more professionalism from a bunch of seasoned filmmakers and industry people.

I mean, this is your first passion – filmmaking. You have been doing that long before stepping into the paranormal battlefield. By the time you arrived here, this sort of pre-production stuff should have been as smooth and slick as my urethra.

The way you handled yourself and your production in this respect, was something I would expect from inexperienced hacks that don’t have a clue about filmmaking.

As far as building confidence – you didn’t.

Your foray into the paranormal was equally as disastrous!

By admission, you are an amateur ghost hunter. This means that you have read stuff online, in a book and have checked out a haunted tunnel or two. As an amateur ghost hunter you haven’t dedicated the time necessary to understand what investigating the paranormal really involves.

Craig is skeptic. A skeptic of what? Ghosts? God? Chauvinistic pigs? Everyone is a skeptic of something. What has Craig investigated to make himself a skeptic of the paranormal? Did he investigate the same tunnels as you? Did he read the same websites? 

Jerry has lots of experience with the paranormal. How knowledgeable is Jerry on the subject of paranormal investigations? Has he been on any investigations?

And please don’t say you all watched how it was done on TV!

Kaeli likes the paranormal. Your hooker archetype LUSTS for the paranormal.

Sayge channels a dead Jesuit priest, sometimes for money, sometimes for free.

And to round off your team, you are looking for a person that can hold this serendipitous collection of misfits together by sheer charisma!

Once again you have failed to impress upon me your knowledge of the paranormal.

Frankly, you are inept at filmmaking. That much you have admitted and proven.

Now you are taking that same ineptness and applying it a field you obviously don’t have a passion for. How can we trust you to do this right?

Your post-production, support team for the families is bogus.

I don’t by it.

It sounds nice. But how much effort did you put in finding them? Did you watch them clear a house or did you just take their word for it?

When I asked you about your influences and what you are trying to emulate, you said Paranormal State and TAPS?

Are you fucking serious??

Even people that don’t know anything about the paranormal know about these two shows. Not only did you pick the most popular shows, but you have failed to make an effort to research the shows.

You know how I know?

Because you said you heard about something being hoaxed. There is a lot of information out there that points to their bullshit.

All you have to do is research.

So not only are you inept at filmmaking and paranormal investigations, you are also inept at doing research.

How were you planning on putting together a show based on real investigations when you can’t even do the proper amount of research required to be at least competent in one of the three areas I just mentioned?

Wait… there is more.

Your audience. You don’t care who watches your show as long as they watch it. This is the same group of idiots that still watch Paranormal State and TAPS and think it is real. These mindless automatons drink in demon stories like its lemonade.

Also, one would think that in a marketing campaign, you would have done your research and spread the word through the myriad paranormal groups local to your area. Which you haven’t bothered to do.

Instead, you post blurbs on horror fiction websites.

Seriously?

I am still trying to figure this one out. Which ineptness category does this fit into? Filmmaking? Paranormal Knowledge? Or Research?

With your track record so far, how am I supposed take anything else you say?

You say Shelley was fired for being a fraud. A big piece of evidence is this paper she used to write down things the family told her and that she used to make herself look legit.

Yet… you admit you haven’t seen what was on this paper.

Again… inept. Wouldn’t you like to see the evidence of her fraud first before making a statement to that effect? I know I would.

She very well could be a fraud. I really don’t know. But once you boil away all frumpiness, her involvement was a non-issue. The bottom line is, she had nothing to do with your crappy filmmaking, your inexperience with the paranormal field and your vocational school research skills.

I would also bet that there is more to the family connection and your production than  you are letting on.

Let me explain why I think that.

The family needs help. Badly.

Who do they turn to?

A bunch of guys making an internet show about ghost hunting.

How the fuck did they stumble across History of a Haunting before they found a more reliable source to help them?

Go ahead and Google paranormal in Ontario. Tell me what you find first. It would take a Zoltach-sized miracle for them to filter through all the entries until they found yours.

Call me skeptical, but this smells like bullshit.

You had an opportunity to convince us, but you couldn’t. Instead you run around making weak arguments about what nice people you are.

If there is one thing I have learned (from first hand experience), is that when someone goes to so much effort to tell everyone how nice a guy they are… they are exactly the opposite.

History of a Haunting is not about helping people. It’s about making something that is popular right now and trying to turn a buck. If it was called fiction right from the start, you would have found a more receptive audience.

Whenever a show like yours gets some exposure in the press, it adds another black mark to the field in general. ESPECIALLY when you go out of your way to emulate shows that are fake.

Thanks for taking the time to join us, and despite my negative comments in this post, you and the rest of HoaH is welcome here anytime.


 

[Ghostboy]

A-FUCKING-MEN.

[devilsreject]

That was fucking awesome,,well said and done Creepy!!You get a gold star beside your name for that one!!

[ommadawn69]

CB--- WOW!!!!!!

I was going to comment about all of this, and now how in the world can I post anything after that post?

I agree CB-

I was reserved to post on this thread until I checked out some things about this new show. And I usually don't say much, but coming on this thread and reading what Nathan said, and the others here, I had to ask questions I had.

Nathan- I have to hand it to you for coming here to answer the questions. But again with your reply to Matthew's post, very defensive.

It does seem you want to make a tv show in the paranormal field, yet no research, proper research was done. I have to tell you that stating influences like Paranormal State and that other show really shows what this new show is going to be about. Another one of those shows.

I said to you that my opinions on Paranormal State are just that. But anyone with a brain can see that things on that show are a little too stupid for words. Anyone that has actually done paranormal investigations can see that.

Me being a Medium, I know I may not have a chance in hell in convincing people. I have been targetted for being a Medium as a fake. But what I have done, and for my honest readings, has shown that I have something I can't explain. And I have done many investigations, and seen many things in my time. But showing a video of your 'medium' on what looks like he is being held down by an unseen presence is so over-the-top hollywood it makes me sick. I don't know this 'medium'. But he channels through a Jesuit Priest? And you promote that? To me, anyone coming in to help my family out by bringing someone who has a spirit called Zoltach, or whatever the name is, with that medium that he channels, I would show that group the door thinking they are a bunch of insane idiots. Now I am not saying you and your group are. I am just trying to point out how silly this group of "misfits" really are. Way too much like the other shows. There is nothing, to me anyway, that tells me that this show is "real".

It just seems to me that the promo video of a person being, what looks like, held on a bed, brings out the teenage boys who think it's cool to see a deadly spirit holding someone to a bed. And not actually realizing it is faked. The perception was it was a unseen presense holding the person down on the bed. But you say it is not like that. Your telling us it has nothing to do that, but that is what this medium does, goes into some sort of state. I guess actually have a commentary telling viewers that is what it was wouldn't sell the show that's for sure.

The whole Shelley thing, I don't know. But I do agree with CB with his views on that. If you fired Shelley because you felt she was a fraud, then what other proof of that if you hadn't even read what she wrote on the paper? And I don't buy into real families being on this show. Because really how in the world will families turn to this group over any other group out there? What promotion do you give to get these families? I just don't get it.

Too many questions about all of this. And it is great you here to answer the questions, but when people quote what you said, and what is being promoted by you and your group, which makes more and more questions, then someone should take a step back and say "you know what? Maybe we shouldn't promote it as reality." That would be a great start. Because nothing out of this group shows that it is real. Glorifying mediums doing weird things lying on a bed to show way too much hollywood style horror flicks is an insult to those that actually do know what we are talking about, and have done the research, investigations, honest readings. And like myself, ALL FOR FREE. I don't give stupid ill advised guarantees of results. There are no guarantees/ And what did me in Nathan was when you failed to answer my questions about you stating Guarantee Results, which was what your group promoted.

Too many holes in this. I will watch it. But not as someone who will think it's real. I will take it as what it is sounds like it to be. A fake tv show, that should only be viewed as Entertainment. Real investigators don't make tv shows out of what they do. Actors do.

Thank you Nathan for coming here and facing the music. LOL. I do have to hand it to you. For bravery coming to try and defend a show against many that are real at what they do, and they don't glorify it. We do it for the interest. Not for viewers, money, power, etc.

[divineintervention]

Hi there, ommadawn69 and everyone,

Well being a professional medium in the U.S. for the past 20 years, I have myself personally witnessed in my work people being pushed, pulled, held down and many other form of physical interference.  So for you to say ommadawn69 that this man's work is fake shows that no matter how long you have been a medium that you are a novice in the work.  Yes a novice...because unless you hold some special power and have experienced all there is to experience in this world then you can never make such statements as you have.

Are you a deep trance medium...that's what I thought...so unless you have been to Africa you can not speak about the Africa experience.  And no your friends who are deep trance mediums don't count as your personal knowledge of this work...wayyy ahead of you little girl.   

Secondly I will ask everyone on this forum to go to work tomorrow and let their employer know that they will work for free for the rest of thier lives.  Then when hydro shows up at your door to disconnect the lights I want you to tell them that the reason you cannot pay the bill is that you could never charge your employer money for your work as it would discredit you as a professional person.  Now that would really be a dark day wouldn't it ?

Although I am not with the show I would have been honoured to be asked.  I say to nathan Chamberland that although I don't know you I support your show because you had the meat balls to do it.  Not like these other arm chair quarterbacks.  You know it's always those who have never ventured out of the safety of the womb that talk of what life is like on the outside.  You have my blessings for your show Mr. Producer...and I will personally come from the U.S. to applaud you when your program does well.


And to creepy...please..your feeble attempt at baiting Nathan with those sneaky nice guy tactics which were so 80's..LOl..you should have flown air force one overhead as that would have been far more sneaky..freight train...I chuckled when you started you know....your "gotcha" moment was a real surprize...ooo did not see that coming..hahahahaha.....but young man you have the support of your young peers.....feels great eh....I am getting that you have your baby sitter certification...does that make sense ?

All in all young ones, I am sure my post will make you angry but I say to you...embrace love...only love..

Respectfully Divine

[Creepy Bastard]

Hello Divine,

Welcome to the board. Thanks for your two pence.

"...does that make sense?" You ask... well... no. It really doesn't.

Sneaky nice guy tactics? Love it! I'm gonna use it. K?

A Professional medium? What is that exactly? Is that searchable on Monster?

It sounds like you would have been better served spending the last twenty years working on a rudimentary education instead of bilking poor saps out of their hard earned hydro bill money. How many families have you lied to over two decades? Probably alot, huh?

I may not be a professional medium, nor a channeler, but my Creepy-Sense (tm) is tingling (it's trademarked... you can't thieve it!)... Somehow I think you aren't just a random visitor who "doesn't know Mr. Chamberland, but supports the show"... You don't have to be ashamed of knowing them. It's all right, no one will hold that against you.

Well, thats it from this young man.

[shelleymurdock]

Wow..do i ever have alot on my mind....well i'm gunna get it off,i'm emptying it out!!

Nathan stated back on the PSICAN blog that he was merely looking for someone who was dependable.

Was i not dependable enough for you?...I was there for everything!

Or was it that i have a critically ill toddler that clouded your judgement?

I have to say that i'am pretty confused between fraudulent,frumpy and independable.

Ill stand up and ask why we were given pen and paper to write things down on scene,if we weren't allowed to write all?

I'll take my bow now.

BTW...you are welcome for the tea,i'd buy ya another had i the opportunity!!!!!

Shane/sayge/soupy/zoltach,was the one whom had met with the family the day before and HE got his questions and answers ahead of time,but you state that i'am a fraud!!

I think you need to get your facts correct sunshine!

And to think that you didn't even know what was written on that paper.

The family read it,quite frankly they were impressed.

Shane read that paper as well,so tell me where he got his info?...from me and you know it!!!

I had made statements about that home before i had even been there,those statements were correct and confirmed correct.

Only the guilty lie,then use another lie to cover it up,you would punish your children for this correct?

Is anything sounding familiar yet?

So now you think your safe,you got your nondisclosures out just in the nick of time,so that people couldn't comment or correct your lies.


Oh yeah,don't threaten me about legalities,you nondisclosures don't mean shit in court,maybe i should rethink that one,perhaps i have enough grounds for a counter claim.

You forgot your most important nondisclosure and your timing was quite off!

Professional eh!

Your post was great,you won't  rip me apart,as if you hadn't already tried,i seem to think that it's because you can't seem to remember your post's before,or perhaps you cannot think of more to say.

Simply nathan i enjoy your contradictions.

Perhaps Jerry should come on the blog and say his piece about me,but again the NDA stands between us now.

Jerry is an honest man stuck between fiction and nonfiction.

What has you concerned that i'm a fraud?.......because shane told you so?

I was a huge threat to him and he knew that.

I gave you my complaint against him stealing my words and using them,i was onto him during the first set,and then it was confirmed during the second.

Shane had made a comment,he said that i was a very powerful girl...are you saying that he lied?

So let's see who the fraud is.

Would you allow the said family to come on this forum,under disclosed names of course,and state their opinion?...oh wait that NDA kicks in here again.

Sounds like to me you have alot more to hide then just mistakes.

Do you not have morels?.......You sit there and lie,how do you face your cast that knows tha truth?

The truth is out there.

Black magic...nathan...c'mon...give me a friggin break,are you for real?........That is a subject that i said i would not deal with from the get go.

So now i say on my own part that i have spoken the truth and more truth will eventually come out by others,i'm also over the high school drama.

[divineintervention!]

Hi Haunted,

Sorry must have been the whining that confused me...and as for creepy...nope I am just an old man passing through..no connection to the show (although I wish there was).....just a proud supporter of what you oppose...progress my friend.

No stealing here of hydro money...just good ol fashioned assistance to my fellow human.  However I could lend you some of my love and good will when you go to work tomorrow and tell your boss you don't need the hourly wages or salary you make to survive because your a professional paranormal....ummmm...well what do you call yourself again ?

Dungeons & Dragons anyone ?

[the_haunted]

Divine, how much do you charge for your services and how do you define professional?

If it is professional fees, then how do you justify comparing yourself to let's say a licensed physiotherapist. We know what their education is, etc, professional organization involvement, licensure. and we know what to expect for a specific fee and maybe even an outcome.

Or do you consider what you do entertainment and charge creative fees??

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